Podcast S2 E3: Lessons from Relationships

Question 1

You’ve spoken about your great cause as channeling wisdom — through the blog, the podcast, the audiobooks, service to others. But the most intimate test of any great cause is in the relationships closest to us. Looking at the full arc of your relationships — parents, brother, marriage, children — what has been the central theme running through all of them?

Transcript

I think the central theme is trying too hard and, um, failing miserably. I think the harder I try, the greater the fall. I end up feeling responsible for the health of the relationship and perhaps try too hard, like I said. And it more often than not leads to people taking me for granted, some resentment building up, and eventually leading to conflicts which sort of break the relationship. In some ways, I don’t know if I’m really built for the kinds of relationships that are socially kind of expected and mandated. It just doesn’t seem to work for me. So yes, if my great cause is to be tested through relationships, then I would say that it’s a massive failure.


Question 2

You said the harder you try, the greater the fall — that trying too hard may be the very thing that breaks the relationships you most want to sustain. But the podcast, the blog, the audiobooks — none of those were tried for. They arrived when you stopped trying. Is there a version of relationship that works the same way — and have you ever experienced it?

Transcript

Oh, I do splendidly well with spiritual teachings and dogs. Great relationships I have with those. But when it comes to human beings, it turns out to be an entirely different kettle of fish. I think my ego gets triggered quite easily and I find it very hard. I might be better at relationships if I were more thick-skinned, I guess. Having said that, I have some very lovely friendships and they know that I really value them and they’re a very important part of my life.

Even if I were to look at the closest relationships, which have been fraught with my parents, my brother, my marriage, and to some extent my daughter, I think there is in all of them there has always been a sense of love, kindness, and warmth. So it’s not always been conflict, and I think that’s perhaps the sadness of it. Each of them had so much potential, and I valued them a lot. But the fact of it not working out has been a great source of sadness for me.

I guess it started with my parents, I would say, that very early on, it was a bit of an unnatural relationship of becoming the counselor between them at a very young age, trying to patch up their differences. It’s not something that a child should get into, but I got into that over a long period of time. And until I actually came back from Denmark, that particular trip, there was an incident that happened which really made me feel like I’d reached the end of my tether and I said, “I can’t do this anymore.” And I went on to make this rather irrational decision later that if I cannot, you know, fix my parents’ relationship, then how can I ever be a counselor to anybody else later in life? So I sort of blocked that part of my life with this rather silly conclusion that I came to.

I think at this point in time, what works for me is space in relationships where there’s also affection and warmth. It works well when there is respect and admiration, um, one way or the other or both ways. And I think that’s usually a much better ground for friendship than the kind of other kind of messy intimacy that leads to conflict. So I, uh, like to think that I bring a lot to a relationship, but somehow it never seems to be enough.

To answer your question, is there a version of a relationship that works the same way? Have I ever experienced it? I did, actually, in 2023, during the times of the crisis that hit me. There was one relationship that really was very special, and she had this uncanny ability to understand what I was thinking or feeling before I could voice it. And it was truly the first time that I felt seen and understood. So that need to be seen and understood, I think, got met there in that relationship.

And even though it was brief, for a few months, it is perhaps my most cherished experience. And I think the latter attempts at dating were never quite, I think, matching up to what was there in that relationship that I had. It’s a pity that it didn’t last longer, but it served a very important function. It gave me the experience of being loved. And it gave me the experience of being understood and seen, and that really quenched something that was a long-felt need.

So that part of me feels settled, and I really don’t feel this urge to be seen and understood anymore. I am thankful for what there was, and I’m eternally grateful to her for what she brought into my life.


Question 3

You described becoming the counselor between your parents as a child — a role no child should carry. And then a conclusion drawn at 25 that if you couldn’t fix their relationship, you were unfit to help anyone else. That conclusion sounds like it may have quietly shaped a lot of what followed. What would you say to that 25-year-old now — and has that door ever fully reopened?

Transcript

I would tell the 25-year-old: Don’t make it your job to fix anyone in the world around you. Don’t draw your identity from trying to keep harmony. And learn conflict resolution. Be firm, stand your ground, draw your boundaries, learn to say no to people, and work through the discomfort of being able to say no, even if it displeases others.

At the slightest sense of disrespect or discourtesy, notice that it’s a massive red flag and if possible deal with it, or let them know that it’s simply not acceptable. And if they continue and insist to behave in ways that are disrespectful to you, then that’s valid ground to say, “Hey, this particular relationship is not for me,” and move on cleanly with closure and without any kind of residue.

And remember that, you don’t have to be liked by everybody and you don’t have to like everybody. The world is a large place, you will meet some people who don’t like you, and you will meet some people who do like you. And, go with those that don’t make you have to put in this kind of effort in order to be understood or to have an affectionate friendship or relationship.

And if you want to get into counseling so you can fix other people’s lives, that’s the wrong reason to get into that. Don’t do that. And I would say continue to write. Just continue to write because it will open doors that you cannot imagine yet.


Question 4

You just told the 25-year-old to write — and the writing did open doors that couldn’t be imagined. But there’s one relationship the blog has circled without fully entering. You described it as the deepest wound yet to heal. You don’t have to go there if you don’t want to. But is there anything you’re ready to say about it now — even just what it has taught you?

Transcript

Ah, you’re referring to my relationship with my daughter and the estrangement that’s happened. Yeah, that’s the deepest cut of it all. It’s the hard one to reconcile. The hardest part of it is the fact that it could have been healed quite immediately, but it was allowed to fester and become much larger than it needed to be. Quite unnecessary and quite tragic. At this point in time, it’s really out of my hands. I accept that this is what it is at this point. And if something changes, that would be fantastic. It’ll always be open from my end, but you can’t really force anyone to want to be with you or to talk to you. So even in the closest of relationships, if someone decides that they don’t want to be interacting with you or have a relationship, then there’s not much you can do about it. But in this instance, I can’t give up. She’s my daughter. I birthed her. I mean, I birthed her. I raised her. I was her primary parent for 16 years. That’s not just going to get wiped out because of one incident. So we’ll see. I hope. We’ll see.


Question 5

You began this episode saying relationships have been a massive failure. You’re ending it having spoken about the deepest wound with extraordinary honesty, open arms, and hope. Has anything shifted in how you see yourself in relationships — just in the course of this conversation?

Transcript

I think at some point of time earlier in one of the other episodes I had said that my energies are not, uh, going into trying to become a better human being in terms of, you know, self-development. That’s not where it is. It’s really in terms of, staying with the silence and allowing it to seep into one’s life. So from that perspective, relationships are really an effect and not a, starting point. And, in many ways they don’t seem particularly important, and this is, a big shift for me. And, uh, maybe not in a way in which I think the question intended. But I think there are functional relationships which are important, to keep things going well in the world. Then there are those where, perhaps there is, space and there is respect, and, that’s great too. And then where on top of that there is some affection and warmth, that’s fantastic. I think everything else can really just, find their place outside the orbit, as it were, because I think the most critical thing here for me is really the peace that has been hard-won. And I’m not somebody who feels lonely, so I’m quite happy with my and contented with my, solitude. Where does joy come from? We’ll see. It doesn’t have to come from relationships. If some friendships and other connections do, uh, provide joy, that’s great, that would be a bonus, but it’s not necessary, I feel. I feel that the expressions that are coming through in other ways, they are good enough at this point in time. So I’ll rest with that.


Featured Image: Photo by Amir Hosseini on Unsplash


Read about the methodology I have used to create these podcasts. It is a bit unconventional!